Editor’s Note: Faik Batti has been a member of the central committee of the Iraqi Communist Party since 1993. He was a journalist and historian of the leftist press in Iraq. After an exile of 25 years, Batti returned to Iraq in 2003.

PA: The last time you and I met was in 2003. There was a lot of optimism about the possibility of building a democratic society after the collapse of the regime. Do you still feel the same optimism or have moods changed?

FB: first of all, who will build democracy in Iraq? Not the Americans. We have a long history of struggle for peace and democracy in Iraq, since 1935. Some of the parties that are building Iraq now have a very decent, a very national history like the Iraqi Communist Party, like the Kurdish parties. How to build a democratic Iraq? I think our president yesterday (July 24) said one thing that was good. He asked all democratic groups and parties to unite in a front to make peace and build democracy in Iraq. So this is a good sign that President Talabani as the leader of the Kurdish Patriotic Union asking all democrats to unite. This is a good sign that you cannot build democracy without the leading role of the democratic forces in Iraq.

We are now cooperating with the Islamic parties, we used to cooperate with them ten years before the collapse of Saddam Hussein. We started cooperating and working together with the Islamic movement in Iraq in 1991. We know that we have an ideological conflict with the Islamic movement, but before the collapse, when we were struggling against Saddam Hussein, we, as communists, cooperated with them to put down Saddam Hussein by revolt or revolution, or by an uprising as happened in 1991. During the uprising in March 1991, 14 provinces were liberated by the people. But who put down that uprising? It was the Americans and Saudi Arabia. They were afraid that this uprising would bring a regime that would not be good for Saudi Arabia or the Americans. Since 1991, the so-called liberation of Kuwait, occupied by the Americans, America started to gather some of the groups, parties, elements inside Iraq.

We have our own policy. We know what we need. So we work as groups – Islamic groups, communists, Kurdish parties. We were against the blockade. Our main policy and slogan was to lift the blockade on the Iraqi people and to bring down Saddam Hussein. These two together were our main slogans, and we worked for that with the Islamic movement, and we convinced the Kurdish movement to unite together to put an end to the regime.

So when the Americans started to talk about weapons of mass destruction and this and that in Iraq, we knew that this is an excuse, because the Americans and the West, and the Germans, they gave Saddam all of these arms. So they knew how much he had, where it was and if he could use it or not. We knew that it was an excuse.

We stood against the war. We were the first party in Iraq that said no to the war. Other groups and parties were helping the Americans to go for war to put down Saddam Hussein and end the dictatorship. We stood against that. Now we stand also against occupation. We started to struggle in Kurdistan with the armed partisans, we fought with them since 1980. We were in the mountains in Kurdistan fighting the Saddam Hussein regime. From that time until now, we had three main aims, for which we have struggled: against the blockade, against the war, and now against the occupation.

When war started and the Americans entered Iraq and the regime collapsed and Iraq was occupied, we as a party said no to occupation. But then it happened, and they started making arrangements for a new government and new groupings. And Bremer came and started a conversation with all of the leaders in the Iraqi community and the parties. We were one of the parties that Bremer met. We cannot be away from the political developments happening in Iraq. As communists we cannot be away or to only watch what’s going on. No. We had to participate in these changes. Because we’re communists, to participate in the changes, to push democratic changes in Iraq, we have to be part of it, but not to be under what Bremer commands or under American policy or to even agree with what the Americans are doing.

Who’s responsible for the sectarianism going on here? From the beginning when the Saddam Hussein regime collapsed, we stood against sectarianism and against hatreds between the Kurds and the Arabs. We have always stood against this. When we got slated in the elections and we agreed to participate with a communist minister in the government, our policy to now, and this is what we have written in our organ, Tareeq Al-Shaab, was against sectarianism. We are against the sharing of posts in government and parliament on the basis of sectarianism. We are doing our best to put an end to all of this, to build real democracy there.

When the Shia and the Sunni started to fight each other, where was the American army? They have 150,000 soldiers. Can’t they stop what’s going on now in Iraq, put an end to it? They say, we cannot. But in some areas Iraqi army and police are putting an end to these conflicts. The Iraqis are dependent on the American army. They are in this or that city, while the Americans are looking and killing people, but they are doing nothing. Who benefits from what’s happening in Iraq now?

Occupation is one of the main reasons that this unstable situation in Iraq is going on, as our Party has analyzed. That is why we are asking now to put out a schedule for a withdrawal of all foreign armies from Iraq. We believe that democracy will not be done under occupation, by Americans killing people, bombing cities, bombing innocent people. We believe that democracy will be built by the Iraqi people and its parties. The Americans should withdraw, today or tomorrow. They have to withdraw from Iraq. We are living in a situation where there is no way that occupation will be as safe as it used to be before.

As to the resistance in Iraq, do you think there are only Shia and Sunni Muslims? There are nationalists in Iraq struggling against occupation, hitting American tanks, bombing American stations. This is not an internal conflict between Iraqis. This is against occupation in Iraq. One of the ways and methods is to fight Americans. We believe this is not the way to end the occupation for the time being. We should use all the methods, particularly political methods, and convince all of our allies in Iraq that the only way to put an end to this mess in Iraq is to put a schedule for withdrawal, stand against the sharing of government posts and political power on the basis of sectarianism and basis of religion, or on the basis of Kurds and Arabs. If you are elected, you are elected to represent the Iraqi people, whether you are a communist, Kurdish, or an Islamic believer. We should convince all of these groups and parties that we must reach the solution. We have a parliament that represents all the groups in Iraq. We should practice this unity. This should be our first step toward democracy.

PA: Recently, the speaker of the Iraqi parliament, Mahmoud Mashhadani, described the US occupation as a 'butchery' and demanded US withdrawal. And Human Rights Watch also published last week a report on torture and prisoner abuse of Iraqis held in US prison camps in Iraq. What is the Communist Party’s view of these happenings?

FB: It isn’t only Mashhadani or us saying this about what’s going on in Iraq. The American newspapers are writing about the Americans killing at Haditha, in Fallujah, and now in Baquba. The Americans aren’t only harming prisoners. They are killing innocent people. They are raping girls and killing the families. I saw this in the New York Times. So who is saying this – American newspapers. They are saying the US army is doing this and that, which is all true. The Americans brought down Saddam Hussein to bring all of these crimes? We Iraqis we don’t accept this.

As communists, we are demanding respect for human rights in Iraq – whether it’s the Americans, the government, or the Islamic movement. We are asking to respect human rights in Iraq. We are against the massacres that are happening in the streets of Baghdad and the other provinces. We are against the rampant outlaw gangs that come to kill our people. We are against the bombing of innocent people in the markets, in their houses, in the streets, car bombs.

PA: On the issue of sectarianism, we are hearing stories about groups like the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI). I guess it is headed by the Ayatollah al-Sistani…

FB: Hakim.

PA: What’s its relationship to Sistani.

FB: Sistani is the biggest clergy man in Iraq for Shi’ites. All of them respect Sistani. They listen to Sistani, even in the Sunni movement. He is a very respected person. We all respect him.

PA: What’s his relationship to the SCIRI?

FB: He has no relationship. He is the head of Shias in Iraq, but he has no relationship with the SCIRI or any party. As a religious man he should not interfere in politics. This is what we see now in Iraq. To have peace in Iraq, to put down all of this conflict and these massacres, Sistani should not interfere in politics. He should be a clergyman a leader of the Shia, asking them as he did, he asked all the Muslims in Iraq to stop killing each other. This is a very good sign now.

PA: So it’s misleading for the US media to describe him as being affiliated with a particular political organization?

FB: Exactly. This is one of the mistakes of the American media.

PA: The SCIRI has militia groups affiliated with them?

FB: Yes, they are called Badr. This is a militia for the SCIRI. Al Dawa has a militia, as does Moktada Al-Sadr. As a party we stand against the militias. We should get the militia disarmed. We should accept the Iraqi army and the police.

PA: There are two things we are hearing about Badr: one is that they receive funds from Iran and, two, they sometimes operate as part of the Iraqi police force. Can you speak about this?

FB: Let’s be clear. After the regime collapsed, I was there when Iraq was empty of police or the army. You couldn’t see police anywhere, even traffic police. Everything collapsed. We had no government, no army, no police, no ministers, nothing. Who was responsible for that? The American army inside Iraq. When Bremer started to reorganize the police, the army, and the national guard, he opened the door for volunteers. Who got news of this? The Ba’athist elements, the Islamic groups – some of which are related to and backed by Iran and some are backed by Syria. The combination of all these elements inside the army and the police made it difficult for any government from the collapse until now to have a strong and organized force, because you have an army with so many different elements. Some of the volunteers were put inside to play that role. That is what happened when you have a police backed by Iran or backed by Syria or backed by Ba’athists. So they organized these crimes. They are sharing in these crimes. You have so many examples that so many elements were kicked out but not before they committed so many crimes.

Now, when you have such a situation, Iran has played a very bad role in Iraq. They are backing groups, sending fighters, and sending money and arms. Some of these were captured by the Iraqi army. Basra, which is the second largest city in Iraq, has been monopolized by so many of these elements. They are not just the Islamic movement. They are helped and pushed by Iran. Iran there has played a very bad role. We have asked them through many channels to stop backing these elements, stop sending arms, and stop everything.

Syria is doing the same thing, backing the Ba’athists who fled to Syria and to Jordan. They’re backing elements linked with Al Qaeda elements and with Musab Al-Zarqawai. They were financing all these criminals. They were sending suicide bombers form Syria. We arrested so many of them in many areas.

Iran has played role. Syria has played a bad role. Saudi Arabia also is playing a very bad role in financing some Sunni groups, especially the Wahhabists. Some many countries are playing such a bad role in Iraq. The main excuse for all of these groups for functioning now is that they are fighting the American occupation.

Believe me, when I came to Baghdad after the collapse of Saddam Hussein, I came from Kurdistan, and before I reached Baghdad, I couldn’t believe what I saw. Huge American tanks were among the cars. Iraqi arms were burned. I cried. After 25 years in exile, I come to Baghdad and see American tanks in our streets. I couldn’t help it. I cried. We didn’t ask for this. We stood against the war. Now we stand against occupation. We are looking for democracy in Iraq. We are against the crimes in Iraq. We want real democracy to be built by Iraqis. We want the foreign armies to withdraw from Iraq, at least schedule the withdrawal. So we can work. So we can put an end to this violence. Everyday now between 80 and 100 Iraqis are killed – everyday! Bodies in the streets. In Lebanon tens and twenties are killed by the bombs of Israel. Everyday hundreds are killed in Iraq. Massacres.

PA: The Bush administration says that setting a timetable will only increase the violence and foreign intervention. How do you respond to this?

FB: This is a very silly excuse from Bush. What did he say, 'We came to liberate Iraq and to put down Saddam Hussein.' Well now we have entered the fourth year. The situation now is much worse than what Iraqis suffered under Saddam Hussein. In the fourth year, if he doesn’t want to schedule the withdrawal of his own troops, then he can’t put an end to what is going on now in Iraq – massacres – which are increasing now. They cannot put an end to that. That cannot give democracy to Iraq. They cannot provide services like electricity. To get petrol you have to wait six hours for your turn. Prices are going up. This is under the occupation. Saddam Hussein was a dictator, criminal, a butcher of Iraq, but now we have so many butchers in Iraq. I would ask Bush one thing. Who is responsible for what’s going on in Iraq after the collapse of Saddam Hussein? Was his goal to get rid of Saddam Hussein and to bring the American troops to Iraq and to say we liberated you, goodbye? Of course not. America’s strategic map, which they are implementing now – they started with Afghanistan, Iraq, then Palestine, now Lebanon – the Americans are looking for their interests. They want a new Middle East map. What does this mean? It means the Americans gaining control in this area, the oil, first of all, and then to save their interests in this area.

PA: You mentioned Lebanon and the Israeli invasion. What is the ICP’s position on what’s going on in Israel, Palestine, and Lebanon?

FB: We stand with the Palestinians against the Israeli regime. We stand now with the Lebanese against the Israeli operation, which is backed so strongly by the American administration. They are not ashamed to say they are backing the Israelis. They are saying the Israelis are doing good. The Lebanese are paying – the destruction of their country, killing innocent women and children. Is this a war against Hezbollah? It is a war against Lebanon. We’re not backing Hezbollah or backing Hamas. We’re backing the Palestinians and the Lebanese against aggression backed by America. Israel’s criminal armies are doing what they are doing in Gaza and Beirut backed by America. We support the people, and we’re against war. America should not back Israel in this aggression.

PA: Again the administration is saying that Israel is attacking Lebanon for Lebanon’s own good, because the forces Israel is fighting are the same as the forces in Iraq, Iran, the terrorists, etc.

FB: It’s a big lie.

PA: How does the ICP view that kind of logic?

FB: Do you think that the Bush administration has logic?

PA: Can you talk about the situation of Iraqi workers and the labor movement?

FB: The main trade union now is the one we organized after the collapse of Saddam Hussein, which we as communists are playing a leading role in the executive committee with other groups. We have had many delegations to many countries. We have good relations with the British trade unions and other European unions. Everything collapsed, so were trying to rebuild our unions in some main government enterprises and private enterprises. We have a very strong movement now. Some other parties are trying to make a kind of trade union, but workers aren’t following this. Trade unions in Iraq are strong. The leadership is comprised of communists, democrats, nationalists, and others. We are asking all the unions to rebuild themselves first and then to become part of the national federation. I think we are taking good steps toward that.

PA: Can you talk about conditions of life in Iraq?

FB: One of the big problems that we are facing, which is also one of the factors related to the massacres that are happening in Iraq, is unemployment. We are analyzing that and are writing articles on it. Unemployment is a big problem aside from what I have already told you. So when you have all these things together, what do you expect from people? They have no peace, no security, no jobs, no electricity. Everything in the streets has collapsed. Everything is bad. So what do you expect from this situation when you have around 58% unemployment? I don’t want to compare it to Saddam Hussein when we had around 6 or 7 percent unemployment. What country have the Americans built? What kind of democracy? What kind of situation have they created after 3 and a half years after war and occupation? This is one of the reasons the occupation should end. How can you put an end to unemployment when no factories and no companies can rebuild there because of this bad situation? How can you put an end to unemployment? You have to have a peaceful situation and security, so that the foreigners, the Iraqis and the Arabs will come and rebuild the structure. To put an end to the unemployment, put an end to the reasons for instability. We are looking for the reasons for instability.

PA: What is the ICP’s role in organizing other sectors of Iraqi society such as women and youth?

FB: I can assure you one thing aside from what have already I told you about the role of the communists in the trade unions, we have democratic organizations for students, youth and women. When we started reorganizing these democratic groups, so many members were abroad in exile. We started to reorganize this, and we started to bring all of these people back. Restarting these unions after 25 years is not easy. It’s not very easy to have a good women’s league or a strong democratic organization for students. Over the last three years, however, they have had their conferences and have elected new committees and have played a good role in the universities and secondary schools. They have played a good role in Basra, for example. When some Islamic elements attacked a picnic of students, our comrades played a good role in putting an end to that. The women’s league has good international relations with other groups outside of Iraq. We are looking to strengthen these, and we need time and patience.

PA: What are the next steps the Party envisions taking in strengthening the unity of the people and the government? And what are the next steps in ending the occupation?

FB: We working toward our 8th national convention this year. We have prepared three main reports. I think we can send you our program in Arabic of course at the end of August. I can give an example of the strength and influence of our party. We are the second newspaper in Iraq now (Tariq Al-Shaab). The largest paper is a government paper financed by the Americans. We distribute between 18,000 and 20,000 copies everyday. If you take the elections, now we can’t give a good estimate of our support from them, but before we received 69,000 votes. We had two communists elected on the Iraqi Patriotic ticket, and two Kurdish communists elected to the Kurdish parliament. Altogether there are 25 secular, democratic members of the Iraqi parliament, including four women. But we haven’t succeeded yet in unifying these movements into a strong democratic front. I am sure that we’ll succeed. And this is the only solution for Iraq – to work for ending the occupation in Iraq, to stand against the Islamic movement, which is backed by Iran. Sectarianism should be put to an end. Killing should be put to an end, and for that we need a strong army and police force. It should stand against interference of Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and America – all of these foreign powers in Iraq. This is the only solution.

PA: Earlier you talked about the importance of broad national unity in rebuilding the country. How does that idea fit in with the concept of the democratic front against the Islamic movement? It seems tricky. Where does the transition between these two concepts take place?

FB: The Hussein dictatorship has collapsed and some of our allies from the time period of our united struggle against the dictatorship are in power. And when you get in power you look for your own interests first. The Islamic movement is looking for its own interest first. Even the Kurdish movement is. So the alliance is not as strong as it was before the dictatorship collapsed. Every party is trying to get their interest. Not all of them are against the occupation. Some of the Islamic movement want the occupation to stay on the very silly excuse that if the Americans leave Iraq there will be a civil war. Well, we’re having a civil war now. It is secret; it isn’t open. So what is the difference if they withdraw? We’ll not have a civil war in Iraq for sure. Because some of the groups fighting and killing each other are cards in some hands.